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robertogreco : dunbar   22

Pookleblinky on Twitter: "This is what an average page of the Talmud looks like. https://t.co/V6JHEVczuK"
"This is what an average page of the Talmud looks like. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4_953lWcAA-AIW.jpg
There's a lot going on here, and all of it is interesting.
That text in the center is the mishnah. The mishnah is a transcription of much older oral Torah.
The mishnah was an oral tradition for centuries before it was finally written down.
The text surrounding it is the gemara. The gemara is commentary, centuries later, on that mishna. Which is itself commentary.
The gemara is, importantly, an argumentative commentary. It's a transcript of arguments over centuries.
The gemara is 6,000 pages of history, arguments, excruciatingly nitpicky discussions, and anecdotes.
Each nugget of mishna is surrounded by centuries of arguments over what it means.
Those arguments range wildly. For instance, in one tractate the mishna discusses a unit of measurement.
Over the following centuries, that unit transformed from about a tablespoon into a wheelbarrow worth of stuff.
That transformation is recorded, as people got confused and argued over what on earth it meant at various times.
Each argument presented in the surrounding gemara, comes from a lineage of thought. You can trace that lineage through centuriese
You can follow Rabbi Akiva's thought over the course of his life, and see how many times he was quoted later on, for instance.
You can watch two schools of thought, butt heads in ever more smartass arguments, over centuries.
Sometimes there's reconciliation, one school of thought accepts that another was right. Other times, the arguments continue.
The arguments build on each other. You can watch an argument get settled. Centuries later, that agreement is argued.
The ensuing argument ends nitpicking the original in excruciating detail until it makes sense to enough people.
Layers of commentary upon commentary upon commentary. A millennium later, Rashi added his own.
The Talmud was, essentially, the Internet before people had electricity.
There were correspondences written, indexes where you could locate every mention of Rab Johanan etc.
Subjects ranged from torturous arguments over etymology, to hilarious anecdotes, to daily images of life.3
The Talmud was Usenet before people knew about electricity.
There's even a tractate, Pirke Avot, that's so eclectic there's a thousand-year old joke about citing it if unsure of a source.
In other words, the Talmud is a good example of user interface. It accreted organically, organized itself organically.
Its rough edges were worn away with centuries, it became as intuitive a way of representing discussion as one could get.
The Talmud was, until Usenet, the world's best interface for representing vast discussions. Version controlled, too.
It's been around for so long that its influence permeated western culture.
It helped make "commentary upon commentary" seem intuitive. It would have used hyperlinks if it could have.
And, thousands of years later, we reinvent that wheel, badly. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5AEuYgW8AEWwiH.jpg [https://twitter.com/pookleblinky/status/833171129279852545 ]
We have tried to scale the user interface of the Talmud a few orders of magnitude.
The result: infinite chains of quote RT's with the word "THREAD" and "this."
Tumblr discussions that zoom in microscopically until the first several layers of commentary are invisible.
Any sufficiently advanced commentary model contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of the Talmud
Usenet came closest, followed by irc .txt logs.
Another interesting thing is that the Talmud is 6,000 pages. You can read all of it, a page a day, in 7 years.
If you look at oral traditions around the world, this was about average.
There's probably something like Dunbar's Number, concerning the max size of an oral tradition.
The Mahabharata is about 1.8 million words. 200,000 verses.
The Iliad alone was about 200,000 words. It was an oral tradition for centuries after Homer.
The Talmud is estimated at about 2 million words, of which the mishna alone are about the same range as any other oral tradition.
Assuming there is a limit to how large an oral tradition can be, even after transcription, let's call it 2 million words worth.
2 million words of argument and commentary before things get too confusingly vast for normal humans to keep up.
I'm sure that there's a relationship between dunbar's number and max size of oral tradition.
And that this relationship affects how internet communities fracture and insulate themselves as they scale relentlessly upwards"
oraltradition  talmud  comments  tumblr  annotation  marginalia  conversation  gemara  iliad  mahabharata  internet  web  online  dunbar  commentary  comment  commenting  discussion  history  2017 
february 2017 by robertogreco
actually (27 Oct., 2003, at Interconnected)
"Dunbar contends that humans evolved vocal grooming (language) as a more efficient form of bonding. Assuming that our closest ancester, the chimpanzee, has hit the time budget limiting factor, and that our extra efficiency has all come about with the transition to vocal grooming, this means language is 2.8 times more efficient for bonding than the mechanism nonhuman primates use. That is, "a speaker should be able to interact with 2.8 times as many other individuals as a groomer can. Since the number of grooming partners is necessarily limited to one, this means that the limit on the number of listeners should be about 2.8. In other words, human conversation group sizes should be limited to about 3.8 in size (one speaker plus 2.8 listeners)." (Which makes sense if you think about the different qualities of a conversation with three versus four participants. A study is quoted to back this up.)"
mattwebb  2003  dunbar  dunbarnumber  grooming  primates  humans  groups  groupsize  conversation  speaking  interaction 
october 2015 by robertogreco
Matt Jones & Jack Schulze, “Immaterials” on Vimeo
"Matt Jones and Jack Schulze will explore a cross-section of recent and ongoing work from BERG, examining how the design of products and services comes from working intimately with the materials of your domain, even if they are intangible—like radio or data."

[Diagram at 16:33 mark reminds me of my interest in audiences of one.]
design  materialsim  jackschulze  mattjones  weakties  dunbar  dunbarnumber  materiality  audiencesofone  berg  berglondon  immaterials  smallgroups  groupsize  stongbonds  2011  data  comics  michelgondry  time  radioactivity  touch 
november 2011 by robertogreco
Human Brain Limits Twitter Friends To 150  - Technology Review
"The bottom line is this: social networking allows us to vastly increase the number of individual we can connect with. But it does nothing to change our capability to socialise. However hard we try, we cannot maintain close links with more than about 150 buddies."
internet  science  psychology  socialnetworking  twitter  dunbar  dunbarnumber  2011 
may 2011 by robertogreco
Tom Hume: Common lies of social software
"I've been mentally collecting "lies of social software"…So far I've come up with these, mainly based on my experiences w/ blogging, Flickr, Twitter & Facebook:

"Your friends are equally important". Dunbar pointed out that we have concentric circles of friends: 5 close ones, 15 acquaintances, 50 rough friends, etc. Yet in my friends lists on Twitter & Facebook, everyone's equal (& usually alphabetical). I like what Path have done around limiting size of your network, & Flickr concept of Family, Friends & Contacts - but what about software for just you & those 5 of your closest? Or for you and your other half?

"Your friends are arranged into discrete groups", w/ a corollary that these groups rarely change…

"You can manage hundreds of friends"…

"Friendship is reciprocal & equal". Some people are more important to me than I am to them, & vice versa; we might not like to face up to this in every day life but it's true nonetheless, & our digital tools don't reflect this…"
socialsoftware  via:preoccupations  dunbar  dunbarnumber  twitter  facebook  flickr  path  blogs  blogging  relationships  nuance  socialnetworking  socialmedia 
april 2011 by robertogreco
You’ve Got to Have (150) Friends - NYTimes.com
"Until relatively recently, almost everyone on earth lived in small, rural, densely interconnected communities, where our 150 friends all knew one another…

But social & economic mobility of past century has worn away at that interconnectedness. As we move aroundcountry across continents, we collect disparate pockets of friends, so that our list of 150 consists of a half-dozen subsets of people who barely know of one another’s existence, let alone interact.

…Emotional closeness declines by around 15% a year in the absence of face-to-face contact, so in 5 years someone can go from being an intimate acquaintance to the most distant outer layer of your 150 friends.

Facebook & other social networking sites allow us to keep up w/ friendships that would otherwise rapidly wither away. &…to reintegrate our networks so that, rather than having several disconnected subsets…we can rebuild, albeit virtually, the kind of old rural communities where everyone knew everyone else."
robindunbar  dunbar  dunbarnumber  friendship  relationships  facebook  economics  social  media  socialnetworking  socialnetworks  history  humans 
december 2010 by robertogreco
Why Evan Williams of Twitter Demoted Himself - NYTimes.com
"“I had a fierce desire to create things, to be independent and prove myself, which caused me to reject authority, but never in a sort of rebellious way,” he adds. “It was more like, ‘I’m going to show you by doing it all myself.’ ”…

“Ev was just very frustrated, and he had ideas for how we could do things differently and better,” recalls Tim O’Reilly, the publisher’s founder. “He had a little bit of attitude, a chip on his shoulder, but always with good spirit.”

Mr. Williams left O’Reilly after seven months — “I was bad at working for people,” he says…

Mr. Williams says that all successful businesspeople make enemies along the way. Yet he also says he learned from the Blogger experience. “I was trying to do everything myself when we were going through hard times,” he says. “When it was just me, I was happier, which I think is a sign of failure of working with people.”"
evanwilliams  business  twitter  management  leadership  cv  happiness  lonewolves  authority  entrepreneurship  creativity  dunbar  dunbarnumber  scale  bureaucracy  blogger 
october 2010 by robertogreco
Twitter and the Dunbar Number - Rob's posterous
"As a reminder - Here are the Lego Blocks of the science of human groups. From these precise grouping you build the best performing organizations.

As with Lego, there is nothing random about how best to organize human beings. All well functioning organizations use these groups and they avoid the "Dip" - you will see the "Dip" below.

8 The Circle of Intimacy (The section): where you intuitively communicate as a great sports team will - 15 the dangerous nowhere group that you must either go back to 8 or rush to 34 from - 34 the ideal compound group (The platoon) - 89 the ideal large team - 144 The maximum unit where all can know each other to use trust rather than rules."
twitter  robertpatterson  communities  organizations  socialmedia  groupsize  dunbar  community  psychology  learning  knowledge  business  capacity  sociology  social  hr  leadership  administration  management  tcsnmy  lcproject  classsize  dunbarnumber 
october 2010 by robertogreco
Robert Paterson's Weblog: Fixing Education - #The Social Environment is the Key
"The average class size is 12. This is in the realm of conversation that has an upper limit of close to 20. It means that many clases are about 8 which is the ideal human social design for conversation. When groups are over 23 conversation is impossible. There are two many possible connections.

Yes smaller classes are better. But reducing a class size from 34 to 26 achieves nothing. The Zone is 13 or less with 8 being best. Not a matter of opinion just as the laws of gravity are not a matter for debate either."
groups  groupsize  dunbar  dunbarnumber  schools  education  learning  conversation  robertpatterson  teaching  social  environment  resilience  empathy  lcproject  tcsnmy  socialresponsibility  connections 
october 2010 by robertogreco
kung fu grippe: Episode 27: Missionless Statements
"In this special episode, Dan Benjamin talks with two of his heroes, Merlin Mann & Jeff Veen about independence, free thinking, email, productivity, & changing your game."

[There is more here (on shared values, innovation, organizations, management, entreprenuership, change, etc.) than my notes reflect—all worth the listen.]

[Video also at: http://5by5.tv/conversation/27 ]
dunbar  dunbarnumber  groupsize  classsize  productivity  management  administration  tcsnmy  lcproject  jeffreyveen  merlinmann  danbenjamin  email  communication  leadership  problemsolving  technology  enterprise  independence  freethinking  gamechanging  time  small  slow  ambientintimacy  relationships  understanding  efficiency  human  humanconnection  campfire  offhtheshelfsoftware  values  organizations  groups  sharedvalues  culture  failure  innovation  cv  risktaking  risk  freelancing  motivation  danielpink  meaning  autonomy  drive  missionstatement  vision 
july 2010 by robertogreco
Why Dunbar's Number is Irrelevant | Social Media Today
"I recently finished reading Morten Hansen's fantastic book on Collaboration in which he states that the real value of collaboration and of networks doesn't come from strong relationships and networks but from weak one's. In fact one of Morten's network rules is actually “build weak ties, not strong ones.” According to Morten:
dunbar  dunbarnumber  collaboration  socialmedia  sociology  networks  weakties  strongties  relationships  pln  knowledge  sharing  networking  mortenhansen 
july 2010 by robertogreco
Why Dunbar's Number is Irrelevant | Social Media Today
"I recently finished reading Morten Hansen's fantastic book on Collaboration in which he states that the real value of collaboration and of networks doesn't come from strong relationships and networks but from weak one's. In fact one of Morten's network rules is actually “build weak ties, not strong ones.” According to Morten:

“But research shows that weak ties can prove much more helpful in networking, because they form bridges to worlds we do not walk within. Strong ties, on the other hand, tend to be worlds we already know; a good friends often knows many of the same people and things we know. They are not the best when it comes to searching for new jobs, ideas, experts, and knowledge. Weak ties re also good because they take less time. It's less time consuming to talk to someone once a month (weak tie) than twice a week (a strong tie). People can keep up quite a few weak ties without them being a burden.”"
dunbar  dunbarnumber  collaboration  socialmedia  sociology  networks  weakties  strongties  relationships  pln  knowledge  sharing  networking  mortenhansen 
july 2010 by robertogreco
Australian Design Review / Projects - Dandenong High School
"The cluster buildings at Dandenong are a templated module based around an ideal collective number of 150 students. British anthropologist and evolutionary biologist Robin Dunbar formulated what is now referred to as Dunbar’s Number in the 1990s as an ideal size for a social group in which healthy social relationships can be maintained (interestingly, the average number of friends belonging to any one Facebook account across its 300 million active users is 130).
schools  schooldesign  dunbar  teamteaching  tcsnmy  australia  education 
july 2010 by robertogreco
Half an Hour: The Monkeysphere Ideology
"Our falure is not a failure of business, which performed as intended (at least for those who made off with the wealth). It is a failure of the humanities, a failure of humanity, the study of which has been in notable decline throughout these last few decades, having, if you will, no measurable worth, no valuation, it being nothing more than a pastime and a recreation."
stephendownes  humanism  humanity  crisis  2009  compassion  society  change  reform  community  dunbar  collapse 
march 2009 by robertogreco
The size of social networks | Primates on Facebook | The Economist
"average number of “friends” in a Facebook network is 120, consistent with Dr Dunbar’s hypothesis ... But the range is large, and some people have networks numbering more than 500 ... What also struck Dr Marlow, however, was that the number of people on an individual’s friend list with whom he (or she) frequently interacts is remarkably small and stable. The more “active” or intimate the interaction, the smaller and more stable the group. ... What mainly goes up ... is not the core network but the number of casual contacts that people track more passively. This corroborates Dr Marsden’s ideas about core networks, since even those Facebook users with the most friends communicate only with a relatively small number of them"
via:preoccupations  socialnetworks  dunbarnumber  psychology  socialnetworking  facebook  sociology  anthropology  analytics  dunbar  socialmedia  networking  socialsoftware  culture  internet  social  web  community  networks  people 
february 2009 by robertogreco
I’m So Totally, Digitally Close to You - Clive Thompson - NYTimes.com - "ultimate effect of the new awareness brings back the dynamics of small-town life, where everybody knows your business"
"paradox of ambient awareness...Each little update — each individual bit of social information — is insignificant on its own, even supremely mundane. But...together, over time...coalesce into surprisingly sophisticated portrait of your friends’ & family members’ lives, like dots making pointillist painting...never before possible, because in real world, no friend would bother to call you up and detail the sandwiches she was eating...ambient information becomes like “a type of E.S.P.,”...invisible dimension floating over everyday life." ... "common complaint I heard, particularly from people in 20s...If you don’t dive in, other people will define who you are. So you constantly stream your pictures, your thoughts, your relationship status and what you’re doing — right now! — if only to ensure the virtual version of you is accurate, or at least the one you want to present to the world."
clivethompson  ambientintimacy  ambientawareness  tumblr  twitter  facebook  technology  relationships  co-presence  mimiito  messaging  sms  mobile  phone  online  dunbar  leisareichelt  danahboyd  caterinafake  flickr 
september 2008 by robertogreco
Half an Hour: The Personal Network Effect
"For example, networks that are more diverse - in which each individual has a different set of connections, for example - produce a greater maximal value than networks that are not."
connectivism  personalnetworks  socialgraph  culture  dunbar  education  effectiveness  efficiency  learning  networking  networks  technology  social  interdisciplinary  networkeffects 
november 2007 by robertogreco
Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication (JCMC)
"The Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication (JCMC) is a web-based, peer-reviewed scholarly journal. Its focus is social science research on computer-mediated communication via the Internet, the World Wide Web, and wireless technologies."
academia  anthropology  behavior  blogs  communication  computing  copyright  culture  danahboyd  dunbar  education  essays  facebook  history  im  internet  magazines  networks  socialnetworks  socialsoftware  socialnetworking  research  society  sociology 
november 2007 by robertogreco
Maxed out on social software
"Even when software lets us use our hours more productively, we simply expand the number of tools we use and the number of people we communicate with until we're out of time again."
attention  socialnetworking  social  socialnetworks  socialsoftware  dunbar  gamechanging  networking  overload  continuouspartialattention  time  productivity  information  web2.0  facebook  twitter  del.icio.us  blogs  blogging 
november 2007 by robertogreco
Lunch over IP: ComDays07 / Stefana Broadbent: The 20 people we communicate with
lots here: Swiss teen apprentice = similar social networking and communication patterns to adults; Europe/US...20 core (7 intimate circle + 13 close circle), 37 weaker ties; only 40% of core are chosen, rest are family, classmates, colleagues, neighbors
socialnetworks  socialnetworking  networks  communication  gamechanging  networking  mobile  phones  sms  dunbarnumber  dunbar  lcproject  education  apprenticeships  vocational  research  human  behavior  society 
october 2007 by robertogreco
/Message: Stephanie Booth on Too Many People
"We have to look to the tool makers to build in safeguards that promote human scale, that keep controls in our hands, that provide greater and greater nuance in online relationships. Otherwise, burnout, backlash, and bail-out is inevitable."
socialnetworks  socialsoftware  networking  dunbar  networks  online  facebook  scale  human  relationships  burnout  stoweboyd 
october 2007 by robertogreco
Clive Thompson on How Twitter Creates a Social Sixth Sense
"It's almost like ESP, which can be incredibly useful when applied to your work life...Twitter substitutes for the glances and conversations we had before we became a nation of satellite employees."
twitter  socialnetworking  communication  culture  socialnetworks  socialsoftware  internet  collaboration  awareness  attention  experience  networking  participation  productivity  relationships  messaging  blogging  online  friends  storytelling  mobile  tumblr  clivethompson  web2.0  social  community  visualization  dunbar  collectivism  cyberspace  jaiku  psychology 
july 2007 by robertogreco

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